Sunday, March 06, 2005

Pac-10 outperforms the SEC -- FreeMethomps, WeAreSC.com

The SEC is an elite conference, right? Well, what would you say if I told you that, since 2000, the Pac10 has out-performed the SEC in non-conference play? No, I'm not talking about head-to-head (although we do have an advantage over them there), but rather out-of-conference as a whole. Straight up record favors the SEC:

SEC record in OOC games: 151-57 (72.60%)
PAC record in OOC games: 124-51 (70.86%)

But let's look at things by situation. Let's start with home games:

Out-of Conference Home Games
(Winning Percentage since 2000)



Now here is how you read this chart: The SEC has a 16-15 record at home against BCS teams (basically teams from the six major conferences and Notre Dame). Thus, they win 51.61% of their home games against BCS teams. The Pac10 is 20-13 at home against BCS teams. They win 60.61% of the time in that situation. NonBCS teams are teams from the 'minor' conferences.

Now let's look at away games:

Out-of Conference Away Games
(Winning Percentage since 2000)



This chart is read the same way.

Bowl Games
(Winning Percentage since 2000)



I calculated the NonBCS bowl games, but it should probably be disregarded as there are not enough games in the sample.

Just to be complete, here are neutral games that were not bowl games (Kickoff Classics, etc.):



Here is a summary of the results:


*Winning % since 2000



Ok, five minute break to stretch and get some food.

Welcome back. As you can see, the Pac10 is competitive in every category, and actually leads in everything but the home games versus nonBCS teams and bowl games versus BCS-conference teams. Even in those two categories, the SEC's lead is quite small and certainly not as big as it should be if we are to believe that the SEC is shoulders above the Pac10 So how does the SEC end up having a slightly better OOC record? For that answer, we turn to what kind of games the conferences tend to play. This next chart shows what proportion of each conferences OOC games are played by type:



*Note: This is not winning %. Read below for explanation
**Bowl games are not included in the calculation since this is intended to explore scheduling tendencies

Here is how to read this chart: The SEC plays 78.37% of all its OOC games at home. The Pac10 plays 64.57% of its OOC games at home. 14.90% of the SEC's OOC games are home games against BCS-conference schools. 13.94% of the SEC's OOC games are road games against BCS-conference schools. 51.92% of the SEC's OOC games are home games against Non-BCS schools. Here is another breakdown of the game types:


Out-of-Conference Games by Type



*Bowl games are not included in the calculation since this is intended to explore scheduling tendencies





Even though the Pac10 is almost as good or better than the SEC at every game situation, the SEC is able to have a slightly better overall record because they play a higher percentage of the games that are 'easier (home games, games against Non-BCS or D1-AA teams). They play very few of the kind of games that they struggle in (away games against BCS-conference schools).

Now, let me guess your top criticism. "Maybe the SEC plays tougher teams than the Pac10 teams do". To explore this, I looked at the record of every BCS team played by both conferences. Here are the winning percentages of the opponents (BCS opponents only):

Home games
SEC opponents: 198-150 (56.90%)
PAC10 opponents: 200-145 (57.97%)

**The opponents are practically even, perhaps a little tougher for Pac10 teams but not statistically significant**

Away games
SEC opponents: 190-126 (60.13%)
Pac10 opponents: 234-177 (56.93%)

**The SEC opponents are tougher. You could certainly make a case that this skews the results, but at worst the Pac10 teams still do just as well as the SEC teams.**

Bowl games
SEC opponents: 298-121 (71.12%)
Pac10 opponents: 194-75 (72.12%)

**Despite Pac10 commish Hansen's best efforts, the Pac10 bowl opponents have a slightly better record than the SEC bowl opponents.

There you have it. Despite all the press to the contrary, the Pac10 out-performs the SEC in most situations. Perhaps the SEC teams are better than the Pac10 teams, but why don't the results bear this out on the field?

6 comments:

Anonymous said...

So much for the dominamce of the SEC...

Anonymous said...

The SEC is a good conference, but they aren't the dominant force that they believe they are. In fact, for the most part, most of the conferences usually end up pretty even. They all have up years and down years. So I don't see what the deal is with fans who think that nobody can beat the teams in their conference.

Anonymous said...

I think your numbers are flat out wrong when it comes to wins and losses. So I included a chart below with each teams results in reg season and the bowls... I apologize if I have made any errors but I believe these figures are correct.

I also included a good win, bad loss statistic... this one may seem controversial to people who don't like what it shows but when the implication is that pac teams are under-rated because they play a tough schedule and the sec teams are over-rated because they play more cupcakes ooc then it seems to me the W/L results comparison is exactly the point.

Final Tabulation (regular season ooc vs bcs conf including notre dame)

Team W L Good W Bad L

Arizona 0 5 0 0
ASU 3 4 1 2
Cal 4 3 0 0
Oregon 4 3 1 2
Oregon State 0 2 0 0
USC 9 4 0 1
Stanford 3 5 1 0
UCLA 8 4 1 0
Washington 4 4 0 0
WSU 1 0 1

Total 36 37 4 6

11 of the 37 losses were to teams with 10 plus wins - 9 of whom had more wins than the pac teams they beat
7 of 37 losses were to teams with 9 wins - 6 of whom had more wins than the pac teams they beat

Alabama 0 4 0 0
Arkansas 1 1 1 0
Auburn 1 4 0 1
Florida 2 4 1 0
Georgia 7 1 0 0
Kentucky 4 1 2 0
LSU 1 1 0 0
Ole Miss 0 2 0 1
Miss State 0 2 0 0
South Carolina 3 5 1 0
Tennessee 5 2 1 1
Vanderbilt 3 3 0 0

Total 27 30 6 3

12 of the 30 losses were to teams with 10 plus wins - all of whom had better records than the sec teams that lost
6 of 30 losses were to a 9 win team - all of whom had a better record than the sec team they beat

Bowl Games since 2000

Team Wins Losses Quality W Bad L

Arizona 0 0 0 0
ASU 1 1 0 0
Cal 1 1 1 1
Oregon 2 2 0 0
OSU 2 1 0 1
Stanford 0 1 0 1
UCLA 1 3 0 0
USC 3 1 0 0
Washington 1 2 0 0
WSU 2 1 0 0

Total 13 13 1 3

Alabama 1 1 0 0
Arkansas 1 3 0 1
Auburn 3 0 0
Florida 1 4 0 0
Georgia 3 1 0 0
Kentucky 0 0 0 0
LSU 3 2 2 0
Ole Miss 2 1 0 0
Miss State 1 0 0 0
South Carolina 2 0 0 0
Tennessee 2 3 0 1
Vanderbilt 0 0 0 0

Total 19 17 2 2

Anonymous said...

Arizona:
9/6/2003 LSU (13-1) L 13 59
9/18/2004 Wisconsin (9-3) L 7 9
9/20/2003 @ Purdue (9-4) L 7 59
9/21/2002 @ Wisconsin (8-6) L 10 31
9/9/2000 vs. Ohio State (8-4) L 17 27

Arizona State:
9/11/2004 @ Northwestern(6-6) W 30 21
9/18/2004 vs Iowa (10-2) W 44 7
9/20/2003 @ Iowa (10-3) L 2 21
10/18/2003 @ North Carolina (2-10) W 33 31
10/5/2002 vs North Carolina (3-9) L 35 38
12/25/2000 vs Boston College (7-5) L 17 31 @ Honolulu, HI
8/24/2002 vs Nebraska (7-7) L 10 48 @ Lincoln, NE BCA Classic


California:
11/23/2001 @ Rutgers (2-9) W 20 10
9/20/2003 @ Illinois (1-11) W 31 24
9/14/2002 @ Michigan State (4-8) W 46 22
9/1/2001 vs. Illinois (10-2) L 17 44
9/16/2000 @ Illinois (5-6) L 15 17
8/23/2003 vs. Kansas State (11-4) L 28 42 @ Kansas City, MO BCA Classic
8/31/2002 vs. Baylor (3-9) W 70 22

Oregon:
8/30/2003 @ Mississippi State (2-10) W 42 34
8/31/2002 vs. Mississippi State (3-9) W 36 13
9/18/2004 @ Oklahoma (12-1) L 7 31
9/11/2004 vs. Indiana (3-8) L 24 30
9/20/2003 vs. Michigan (10-3) W 31 27
9/1/2001 vs. Wisconsin (5-7) W 31 28
9/9/2000 @ Wisconsin (9-4) L 23 27


Oregon State:
9/5/2002 vs. Temple (4-8) W 35 3 @ Philadelphia, PA
9/4/2004 @ Louisiana State (9-3) L 21 22

Southern California:
8/28/2004 vs. Virginia Tech (10-3) W 24 13 @ Landover, MD BCA Classic
8/27/2000 vs. Penn State (5-7) W 29 5 @ East Rutherford, NJ Kick-off Classic
8/30/2003 @ Auburn (8-5) W 23 0
9/2/2002 vs. Auburn (9-4) W 24 17
9/14/2002 @ Colorado (9-5) W 40 3
9/21/2002 @ Kansas State (11-2) L 20 27
9/8/2001 vs. Kansas State (6-6) L 6 10
9/9/2000 vs. Colorado (3-8) W 17 14
11/27/2004 Notre Dame W 10 41
10/18/2003 @ Notre Dame W 14 45
11/30/2002 Notre Dame W 13 44
10/20/2001 @ Notre Dame L 27 16
11/25/2000 Notre Dame L 38 21

Stanford:
9/16/2000 vs. Texas (9-3) W 27 24
9/7/2002 @ Boston College (9-4) L 27 34
9/8/2001 vs. Boston College (8-4) W 38 22
10/9/2004 @ Notre Dame L 23 15
11/29/2003 Notre Dame L 57 7
10/5/2002 @ Notre Dame L 31 7
11/24/2001 Notre Dame W 13 17
10/7/2000 @ Notre Dame L 20 14

UCLA
9/1/2001 @ Alabama (7-5) W 20 17
9/2/2000 vs. Alabama (3-8) W 35 24
9/11/2004 @ Illinois (3-8) W 35 17
9/13/2003 vs. Illinois (1-11) W 6 3
9/22/2001 vs. Ohio State (7-5) W 13 6
9/16/2000 vs. Michigan (9-3) W 23 20
9/4/2004 vs. Oklahoma State (7-5) L 20 31
9/6/2003 @ Colorado (5-7) L 14 16
9/20/2003 @ Oklahoma (12-2) L 24 59
9/14/2002 @ Oklahoma State (8-5) W 38 24
9/21/2002 vs. Colorado (9-5) L 17 31
9/8/2001 @ Kansas (3-8) W 41 17

Washington:
11/24/2001 @ Miami (Florida) (12-0) L 7 65
9/9/2000 vs. Miami (Florida) (11-1) W 34 29
8/30/2003 @ Ohio State (11-2) L 9 28
9/6/2003 vs. Indiana (2-10) W 38 13
8/31/2002 @ Michigan (10-3) L 29 31
9/8/2001 vs. Michigan (8-4) W 23 18
9/16/2000 @ Colorado (3-8) W 17 14
9/25/2004 @ Notre Dame L 38 3

Washington State:
9/14/2002 @ Ohio State (14-0) L 7 25
9/11/2004 vs. Colorado (8-5) L 12 20 @ Seattle, WA
9/13/2003 @ Colorado (5-7) W 47 26
9/6/2003 @ Notre Dame L 29 26


Alabama:
9/6/2003 vs. Oklahoma (12-2) L 13 20
9/7/2002 @ Oklahoma (12-2) L 27 37
9/1/2001 vs. UCLA (7-4) L 17 20
9/2/2000 @ UCLA (6-6) L 24 35


Arkansas:
9/11/2004 vs. Texas (11-1) L 20 22
9/13/2003 @ Texas (10-3) W 38 28

Auburn:
9/28/2002 vs. Syracuse (4-8) W 37 34
9/22/2001 @ Syracuse (10-3) L 14 31
9/6/2003 @ Georgia Tech (7-6) L 3 17
8/30/2003 vs. Southern California (12-1) L 0 23
9/2/2002 @ Southern California (11-2) L 17 24


Florida:
11/20/2004 @ Florida State (9-3) W 20 13
11/29/2003 vs. Florida State (10-3) L 34 38
11/30/2002 @ Florida State (9-5) L 14 31
11/17/2001 vs. Florida State (8-4) W 37 13
11/18/2000 @ Florida State (11-2) L 7 30
9/6/2003 @ Miami (Florida) (11-2) L 33 38
9/7/2002 vs. Miami (Florida) (12-1) L 16 41

had a better record than 01 fsu, otherwise all seven had better records than fla

Georgia:
11/27/2004 vs. Georgia Tech (7-5) W 19 13
8/30/2003 @ Clemson (9-4) W 30 0
11/29/2003 @ Georgia Tech (7-6) W 34 17
8/31/2002 vs. Clemson (7-6) W 31 28
11/30/2002 vs. Georgia Tech (7-6) W 51 7
11/24/2001 @ Georgia Tech (8-5) W 31 17
11/25/2000 vs. Georgia Tech (9-3) L 15 27
12/24/2000 vs. Virginia (6-6) W 37 14 @ Honolulu, HI Oahu Classic


Kentucky:
9/18/2004 vs. Indiana (3-8) W 51 32
9/20/2003 @ Indiana (2-10) W 34 17
9/14/2002 vs. Indiana (3-9) W 27 17
12/1/2001 @ Indiana (5-6) L 15 26
9/16/2000 vs. Indiana (3-8) W 41 34

ky was 2-9 in 04, 4-8 in 03, 7-5 in 02, 2-9 in 01, 2-9 in 00

LSU
9/4/2004 vs. Oregon State (7-5) W 22 21
9/6/2003 @ Arizona (2-10) W 59 13
9/1/2002 @ Virginia Tech (10-4) L 8 26

Ole Miss
9/27/2003 vs. Texas Tech (8-5) L 45 49
9/14/2002 @ Texas Tech (9-5) L 28 42


Miss State:
8/30/2003 vs. Oregon (8-5) L 34 42
8/31/2002 @ Oregon (7-6) L 13 36

both teams with much better records than a three win miss state


South Carolina:
9/21/2002 vs. Temple (4-8) W 42 21
11/20/2004 @ Clemson (6-5) L 7 29
9/6/2003 vs. Virginia (8-5) W 31 7
11/22/2003 vs. Clemson (9-4) L 17 63
9/7/2002 @ Virginia (9-5) L 21 34
11/23/2002 @ Clemson (7-6) L 20 27
11/17/2001 vs. Clemson (7-5) W 20 15
11/18/2000 @ Clemson (9-3) L 14 16

Tennessee:
11/8/2003 @ Miami (Florida) (11-2) W 10 6
9/28/2002 vs. Rutgers (1-11) W 35 14
11/9/2002 vs. Miami (Florida) (12-1) L 3 26
9/1/2001 vs. Syracuse (10-3) W 33 9
11/1/2003 vs. Duke (4-8) W 23 6
11/6/2004 Notre Dame L 17 13
11/3/2001 @ Notre Dame W 18 28


Vanderbilt
9/27/2003 vs. Georgia Tech (7-6) L 17 24
8/31/2002 @ Georgia Tech (7-6) L 3 45
10/27/2001 @ Duke (0-11) W 42 28
9/23/2000 vs. Duke (0-11) W 26 7
10/7/2000 @ Wake Forest (2-9) W 17 10
10/9/2004 vs. Rutgers (4-7) L 34 37

lost to teams with better records and beat teams with worse records

Anonymous said...

Shorthand version (summary) of my two long posts above.

For either pac or sec the best indicator of who won bcs games ooc was whether they were playing a team with a better record or worse record

Also, although I didn't push the point very hard there were more upset wins for the sec and more upset losses for the pac if you compared wins/losses of the winners and losers.

This would seem to refute the idea that sec teams (esp relative to pac teams) have a false elevation in their perceived ranking/final record while pac teams have a falsely low final ranking/record

Glen said...

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